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Rhetoric in Western Thought - Week 3

by: Gioia Fisk

Rhetoric in Western Thought - Week 3 SPCM201

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Gioia Fisk

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Phaedrus Notes
Rhetoric in Western Thought (GT-AH3)
Jennifer E Bone
Class Notes
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This 4 page Class Notes was uploaded by Gioia Fisk on Sunday February 7, 2016. The Class Notes belongs to SPCM201 at Colorado State University taught by Jennifer E Bone in Winter 2016. Since its upload, it has received 93 views. For similar materials see Rhetoric in Western Thought (GT-AH3) in Communication at Colorado State University.


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Date Created: 02/07/16
Phaedrus Monday,  February  1, 9:03  AM Plato's  Gorgias Review:  Plato/Socrates  believes  that  rhetoric  is  not  a  true  techne,  it  is   cookery  because  it  only  provides  temporary  satisfaction.   Techne  -­ true  art  or  discipline Since  We've  Last  Seen  Plato… → 17  years  passed  since  writing G  orgias → Plato  has  become  older,  more  mature  (almost  60  years  old) → Views  on  rhetoric  have  evolved ○ Plato  allowed  classes  in  rhetoric  to  be  taught  in  the  afternoon   in  his  school → The  Phaedreus is  among  is  "late"  works   ○ Largely  pro-­rhetoric  (not  sophistic  rhetoric  because  that  is   focused  on  convincing  the  audience  of  anything,  despite  the   truth) → Cast  of  Characters Socrates  (voice  of  Plato) ○ ○ Lysias ○ Phaedrus → "Relationships"  in  Athens ○ Parts  of  Ancient  Greece  had  cultural  tradition  of  pederasty § A  loving  relationship  between  an  older  man  (teacher)   and  younger  man  (student) ○ Foundation  of  many  powerful,  lifelong  alliances → Main  Topic  of  Phaedrus ○ Text  about  love ○ Specifically,  whom  is  better  to  have  as  a  teacher… § The  Lover  or  the  N-­Lover → Structure  of  the  Text ○ Three  Speeches 1. Lysias'  speech  (read  by  Phaedrus) 2. Socrates'  first  speech 3. Socrates'  second  speech   → From  the  Beginning… ○ Socrates  encounters  Phaedrus ○ Take  a  stroll  outside  of  the  city  walls  and  sit  under  a  tree ○ Meanwhile,  Socrates  making  the  moves  on  Phaedrus § Lets  Phaedrus  lead  him  to  the  spot 3. Socrates'  second  speech   → From  the  Beginning… ○ Socrates  encounters  Phaedrus ○ Take  a  stroll  outside  of  the  city  walls  and  sit  under  a  tree ○ Meanwhile,  Socrates  making  the  moves  on  Phaedrus § Lets  Phaedrus  lead  him  to  the  spot § "What's  under  your  cloak?"-­  Socrates ○ Lysias'  Speech  (Read  by  Phaedrus) § Why  is  the  non-­lover  best?  (141) □ Relationship  ends,  a  new  relationship,  and   previous  relationship  is  scorn-­  Loyalty  lasts  only   as  long  as  love □ Lovers  are  "insane"   jealous □ Greater  pool  of  options   □ People  will  gossip § Socrates  mocks  this  speech ○ Socrates'  Response  to  Lysias'  Speech § Pokes  fun  at  Lysias § Says  he  can  do  better   § Plays  coy  to  Phaedrus's  demands § Phaedrus:  "I  won't  talk  to  you  ever  again  if  you  don't!" § Socrates  begins  his  speech □ Organizes  his  speech  with  structure   ○ Socrates  First  Speech § Defines  two  ruling  principles  of  human  beings □ The  drive  for  pleasure  -­ Sophistry □ The  drive  for  the  b-­ Philosophers   When  pleasure  overrides  our  drive  for  the  best,  we   □ call  it  love   -­ may  be  pleasurable,  not  what  is  best § Why  not  to  select  the  lover… □ Lovers  keep  the  beloved  weak  and  isolated  (145) □ Lovers  cultivate  "weak"  men-­  so  that  they  don't   grow  up  and  make  their  own  decisions/opinions,  or   end  the  relationship □ Lovers  keep  the  beloved  deprived  of  property  and   relations □ Love  is  hostile  when  it's  over ○ What  happens  after  Socrates  finishes  speech § Socrates  changes  his  mind § May  have  just  upset  the  gods → Phaedrus:  Part  2 ○ Socrates  changes  his  mind ○ Why? § Speaking  against  the  gods  and  Truth ○ Socrates  blames  Phaedrus  for  this § "a  dreadful  speech,  the  one  you  brought  with  you,  and   → Phaedrus:  Part  2 ○ Socrates  changes  his  mind ○ Why? § Speaking  against  the  gods  and  Truth ○ Socrates  blames  Phaedrus  for  this § "a  dreadful  speech,  the  one  you  brought  with  you,  and   the  one  you  made  me  speak"  (147) ○ Therefore,  Socrates  repents  with  another  speech § Begins  explaining  the  human  soul ○ Test  Reading  Comprehension § According  to  Socrates,  the  soul  has  how  many  parts?  3 § What  "object"  is  used  as  the  metaphor  for  the  soul? □ 2  horses  and  a  charioteer § What  is  the  myth  of  the  charioteer? § What  makes  a  good  speechwriter/charioteer? □ Have  to  be  knowledgeable,  have  to  know  audience ○ Soul  has  3  parts:  2  horses  and  a  charioteer § Good  Horse  -­ desires  wisdom § Wild  Horse  -­ pursues  the  pleasurable § Charioteer  -­ has  to  try  and  find  balance  between  the   horses  so  the  chariot  will  fly ○ The  soul  begins  with  its  wings,  when  the  soul  sheds  its   wings  -­ we  come  to  Earth  in  human  form,  constantly  trying  to   regrow  wings  to  get  back  up  to  heaven  (avg.  10,000  years  to   regrow  wings) § Philosophers  can  do  it  in  3,000  years  -­ because  they  are   more  pure □ Second  group  -­ rule  abiding  citizens □ 3  -­ businessmen   □ 4  -­ athletes  and  physicians □ 5  -­ prophets  and  priests □ 6  -­ poets □ 7  -­ farmers □ 8  -­ sophists □ 9  -­ tyrants ○ The  Myth  of  the  Charioteer § Metaphor  for  the  human  soul § Two  horses  representing  our  virtues  and  base   instincts/needs § We  aspire  to  heaven…but  crash  to  earth § Wild  horse  -­ represents  lust,  harms  the  souls  ability  to   grow § Lust  vs.  Love □ Lust  desire  of  the  dark  horse  does  not  bring  us   closer  to  the  divine ® Easily  fulfilled  by  passion ® Fleeting  desire grow § Lust  vs.  Love □ Lust  desire  of  the  dark  horse  does  not  bring  us   closer  to  the  divine ® Easily  fulfilled  by  passion ® Fleeting  desire ® In  the  end,  harms  souls  ability  to  grow □ Love ® The  patient,  self-­less  desire  of  the  virtuous   horse ◊ Takes  time  and  attention ◊ Springs  from  the  best  interest  of  the   beloved ◊ Is  persistent  and  genuine ◊ If  done  well,  provides  blessings  to  both   teacher  and  student ○ An  artful  speech: § Speaker  must  have  knowledge  on  the  subject § Avoid  "public  opinion"  and  "probability"  -­ need  to  provide   truth § Must  have  clear  thesis  and  be  organized § Definition:  Rhetoric  is  an  art  of  influencing  the  soul   through  words □ Without  true  knowledge  of  the  soul,  rhetoric  cannot   be  an  art/techne  (163) → A  final  thought  on  writing… ○ Writing  is  a  new  technology  in  ancient  Athens § Moving  from  Oral  to  Written  culture § Socrates  a  fan  of  oral  culture ○ Socrates  skeptical  of  writing § Why? □ Encourages  forgetfulness □ Does  not  allow  for  an  immediate  response  (Lysias   could  not  defend  himself) □ Words  on  a  page  can't  teach  or  defend  themselves


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