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Phil 1000, Week 2, Lecture 4

by: Gabbie Scott

Phil 1000, Week 2, Lecture 4 PHIL 1000 - 01

Gabbie Scott
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These notes include Thrasymachus's definition of justice and the argument(s) against it.
General Introduction to Philosophy
Matthew McGrath
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This 3 page Class Notes was uploaded by Gabbie Scott on Saturday October 15, 2016. The Class Notes belongs to PHIL 1000 - 01 at University of Missouri - Columbia taught by Matthew McGrath in Fall 2016. Since its upload, it has received 4 views.


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Date Created: 10/15/16
Lecture 4 September 1, 2016 Justice Continued Argument - Justice should be most effective in benefiting friends - Objection: what if you “just” friend is useless - Objection: you can be wrong about who is “good” and who is “bad” o it is wrong to hurt your enemies if they are good - Objection: “the just person can’t make people unjust by her art, but isn’t it possible for the just person to harm other just people by doing just things” o A just person can’t make people unjust by being just… o The just person can’t harm anyone § Sophie’s choice • Which child does Sophie save and which does she let the Nazi’s kill L • The right thing to do is choose one, but the other must die. If she chooses neither, then both children die • Socrates: being just is tied to your virtues – therefore Sophie did not make the children “bad people” – she didn’t harm them (didn’t make the children immoral) o Doing the right thing can harm somebody § When you do the right thing, you can never harm anybody Thrasymachus demands a definition from Socrates - “Justice is nothing more than the advantage of the stronger.” Thrasymachus definition (338c) o the stronger is the people in charge o the “just” thing to do is to obey the laws set by those in charge o democracies, tyrannies, aristocracies, etc. § all have the same principle of justice • it’s doing what is in the interest of the lawmakers (the rulers) who are in charge Reconstruction 1. Justice is obeying the laws the the rules lay down 2. The rulers are the stronger people 3. The rulers lay down laws in their own interest 4. So, justice is doing what is in the interest of the stronger (1,2,3) Objections 1. Rulers can make errors about what is in their interest o Making mistakes about what will actually help them o If rulers make errors, then sometimes doing what their law commands is doing something that isn’t in the interest of the stronger § T’s response: a real ruler does not make that mistake – “a ruler in the “precise sense” doesn’t make such errors • the doctor who made an incorrect diagnosis, and weren’t really being a doctor – LOL 2. Rulers don’t aim at their own interests but at their subjects’ interests o Doctor’s aim to help the patient, not themselves o A cook doesn’t aim to make money, but to make excellent meals § Goal: not to benefit the individual practicing the craft, but to benefit the subject o Rulers are practicing the craft of government § T’s response: “come off it, does the shepherd really care about benefitting the sheep?” • Shepherd eats sheep… how does that help the sheep? reconstruct arguments where filler is needed for the reconstruction to be as good as possible - Socrates talks of divisions o Anger, unhappiness, etc… o Justice is harmonious? o Justice = happiness o Injustice = unhappiness o “Justice (in individuals) is harmony of the parts of the soul, each playing its proper role.” Missed the end of lecture… zzz


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